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How can I see who was
born in maternity home in same year as myself? |
I WAS born at The Cliffe [maternity
home, Wybunbury] in 1952 and spent my early years in Millstone
Lane before moving to Crewe.
I am attempting to
track down others born at The Cliffe in 1952. Can you help me,
please?
Jeff Lukomiak, Bingham,
Nottinghamshire.
AUGUST
2015
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Paul replies
This is
a bit too up to date for family history.
However, the information you're looking for should be on
the birth registration. Go to
www.cheshirebmd.org.uk
and do a search for your own birth record.
This will give you a book reference such as NA/12B/xxx The NA
stands for Nantwich as this
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would have been the registration
district, 12B is the book then the three-digit number is your entry.
From this you can view adjacent entries but it will not tell you
where people were born, i.e. The Cliffe. You can then log all of the
names in that year.
The
only way to see the additional information is to buy every
certificate but that would cost a fortune. But at least you would
have a starting point. |
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It's a matter of finding
the correct Edward |
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Paul,
I'm having a bit of
difficulty in
finding out
information on my
Third Great Granddad
Edward Tomkinson,
born in
Nantwich between
1802 and 1808. He married
a Margaret Bowyer in
1826.
I'm trying
to find out who his
parents were and if
he had any other
siblings. I've
found at least
another three Edwards
all born in Nantwich
all within a few
years of each other
and three sets of
potential parents.
It's just trying to
find out the right
ones.
I would
appreciate any
information you may
have.
CRAIG TOMKINSON,
Nantwich
APRIL
2014
Paul
replies:
Hi
Craig,
Interesting little
problem you have. I
did some checking on
the Cheshire Parish
Register Project run
by Liverpool
University (a link
is on the left side
bar of the
fhsc.org.uk web
site) and as you can
see (right) I can
confirm the marriage
of Edward and
Margaret.
I
could not find any
record of his birth
so had a trip to
Nantwich Library to
have a look at the
microfilm.
The
birth you are
looking for has no
register, probably
lost at some point
or eaten by mice. It
is one of a few that
are missing going
back to the 1600s
So,
not a lot of help
for you but you will
note that on the
record one of
the witnesses is
James Tomkinson.
If we
assume that this is
a brother then we
can go back to the
Cheshire Parish
Registers Project
and
look for him. In
doing so you will
find his parents
are
Edward and
Elizabeth. Now look
for Edwards
and
the match is the one
born in 1806 not
1802.
Next job for you is to check the rest of the records to find
his other siblings with the same parents.
One thing I did not find was a marriage record for the
parents.
Take care with the DATED field in the record.
This is read backwards and has a leading 1
missing, making 8261225 the 25th
of December
1826.
This is also a good fit as he would have |
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been 18.
Using 1806 as his birth year now gives you the
1841 Census showing Edward, Margaret and
seven
children
living in Welsh Row.
This is not a definite, 100% confirmation for
you
but,
considering the missing register, to me
it is a
good
fit.
Also note that both the bride and groom
signed the register and did not “make a mark”. I can confirm this
from the microfilm as I could read the signatures with no
problem.
Later, Craig contacts
Paul again . . .
Thanks
for the Info. It's still a bit puzzling to work out if
Edward and Elizabeth are the parents of Edward born
1806 because I have found a Baptism record for an Edward
born 1808 with the parents of Edward and Elizabeth and they
also have a son, James, born 1798.
If
I take this as true it makes a mess of most of the Census
dates which date Edward to have been born in 1802. There was
a Edward born in Nantwich in 1802 but his parents where
Joseph and Mary, plus they didn't have a son called James.
Maybe the James Tomkinson at the wedding as
a witness was his uncle or a cousin . I did find another
Joseph Tomkinson who had a son called James but the wife was
Hannah not Mary unless he married twice so James could be
his brother but with different mums but I'm thinking this is
unlikely.
And Paul replies . . .
In my
experience the years
on Census returns
are not 100%. At the
very best, it can be
one to two off and
depended on the
enumerator hearing
and writing down the
correct information.
It
was also dependant
on the informer and
depended on the
question asked. For
example, "When were
you born?” could
give a correct
response, but asking
“How old are you?"
to someone who was
illiterate could be
just as confusing.
I
have one that says,
on Census, marriage
and death
certificates, he was
born between 1853
and 1858 when the
truth was he was
born in 1848.
Without the hard
facts that is, in
your case, due to
missing register
information. The
best you can hope
for is a guess.
You
could follow both of
the ones you find
and later
in your searches you
may find something
that points you to
the correct one.
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In my
case, I have two
William Simpsons,
both
born in
Nantwich in
the same year to two
different families. It
took some time to
work out the correct
one but in the end,
about three more
generations back,
the two families
were the same and it
made it easy to work
out the correct one.
Good
luck with your
hunting.
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When it comes to
this tree, Paul keeps it in the family . . . |
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Left to right are: Alice Green,
Dolly, and Doris and Laurence Woodbridge.
The pictures come from a
surprising source.
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Paul,
My dad
was John Norman Woodbridge, his mother was Doris Green, and his
father was a coalman - I think - John Woodbridge. I know the Green
family were a very large Nantwich family. Do you please have any
info on them?
Many thanks,
FIONA TAYLOR, Nantwich
SEPTEMBER 2013
Paul replies:
Your grandfather was Laurence
Woodbridge, born in 1904 and died in 1975. And, yes, he was a
coalman.
His father was John Norman,
born in Oswestry in 1867, and his father was John, born in
1840 (Bicester in Oxfordshire).
The latter John also had
two daughters, Sarah S., born in 1869 in Rhos, Shropshire, and
Edith H., born
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in 1872 in Llandinam, Montgomeryshire. John's wife
was Harriet, born in 1842 in Oswestry. John
Norman married Mary L. Digan between 1886 and 1890 and had six
children, all born in Crewe: Laurence, 1904; John N, 1890; Edith,
1892; Lucy, 1895; Maggie, 1896; and Arnold, 1899
Laurence married your
grandmother, Doris Green, in 1928 and, as you know, had four
children: your Dad between 1927 and 1929; your Uncle Bernard between
1930 and 1932; Peter between 1933 and 1935 (died in 1937); and
Patricia in 1938.
The Greens' story is
a longer one by far. Doris, born in 1906, was one of 21 children of
Walter Green and Alice Dudley. Direct back from Walter, born in
1879, you get: William Henry, b 1847; Joseph, b 1819; Joseph, b
1796; and Thomas, b 1779. The wife of Thomas was Mary Boote, born
1779, the daughter of |
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Thomas Boote and Margaret, born December 26,
1741.
Down the Dudley tree, I can get
you back to William Ashley, born 1748.
Then Paul has a surprise for Fiona . . .
So now you're asking yourself where I
got all this information from.
It happens to be that I am
your second cousin. My grandmother, Winnie Green, was Doris's
sister.
The pictures above are from
my family album. They are: Alice Green, your great grandmother;
Doris (known as Dolly) in a picture of the type all daughters had;
and Doris and Laurence.
I don't know who is in the
pram, but it could be Norman and Bernard. |
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Search for fourth
great grandfather led back to the
1500s |
A Board of Health
map of 1851, on display in Nantwich Museum, features Pepper Street
running from top to bottom. The Blue Bell Inn (also in the smaller
picture below) is by the letters "REE" in Street. Note the trees and
greenery in the town centre. |
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Hi Paul
Back in September 2012, you were kind
enough to respond to my request for
information about my
fourth
great grandfather, Thomas Edwards. You
inspired me to pursue more research through the Cheshire
Parish Records website and as a result I was able to follow
the
Edwards line back as far as
the late 1500s in Wybunbury Parish. Thanks again for your help.
Steve Totheroh, California, USA
FEBRUARY 2013
The search
began with this letter:
MY fourth great grandfather Thomas Edwards’ will (dated
April 2, 1827) indicates that he owned a pub named the Blue
Bell Inn located on Pepper Street in
Nantwich. Could you please tell me if this building still
exists? Pigot’s Directory for 1822-23 also lists this inn as
being owned by Thomas Edwards.
Thomas Edwards' date of death was November 13, 1828. The
date and place of his birth are unknown.
His will lists a daughter, Ann, and a son, Thomas, as well
as a niece, Sarah Cooke (age under 21). His wife, Sarah, is
not listed.
Thomas Edwards, son of Thomas, was christened on October 28,
1804, at Nantwich.
Ann - my third
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great grandmother - was born on August 13,
1808, and christened on August 16, 1808, at Nantwich.
Her parents were Thomas and Sarah Edwards. Ann married
John Ruffley on December 7, 1829, at Nantwich. After residing
in Northwich and then Manchester, they emigrated with their
children to San Francisco in 1859 after first living a few
years in Australia.
I would be grateful for any suggestions for sources which
might give me more information about Thomas Edwards senior
and his pub as well as about his family.
Thank you very much.
Paul Simpson's reply to
this was:
I'M
sorry to
say the inn is no longer
standing as the entire
side of the street was
demolished in the 1960s
but you can see it on
the map from 1851
(above) in the
middle on the left-hand
side (inset, right).
I will do
some more digging as I
know a book is in the
local
library on the inns and
inn keepers of Nantwich
that should have some
information and I may be able to get
you a picture of the
inn.
I think
you have got the baptism
of Thomas in 1841 from
the Cheshire parish
records as the
information is a very
good fit.
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ANDREW Lamberton (local
historian) says
that Dr A.J MacGregor,
in his booklet "Inns and
Innkeepers of Nantwich", has a Thomas
Edwards listed as
licensee of the Blue
Bell from 1808 to 1841.
Given that Edward Thomas
senior died in 1827 his
son, also Thomas, must
have succeeded him. The
1841 census lists Ann
Butler as the publican
there. |
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THIS was Pepper Street in 1964
(looking towards The Square) when buildings were demolished to
enable street widening. The building on the right is believed to
have been the Bell Inn and the wall-fronted gap between the two
buildings on the left the site of the Wheatsheaf.
Photograph used with the permission
of The Nantwich Chronicle. Probably taken by Clifford V. Kendal, the
former Nantwich photographer, and published in "Memory Lane: Nantwich"
compiled by the late Gordon Davies
.
FOOTNOTE: The
book "Lost
Houses in Nantwich"
by Andrew Lamberton and
Robin Gray refers to The
Blue Bell: "No 9 Pillory
Street (was) a
double-fronted property.
This (public house) was
. . . much older than
its opposite neighbour
(the Wheatsheaf). The
Bluebell started as an
alehouse, the licence of
which ran continuously
from 1769 to 1861.
"In 1913, No 9 Pepper
Street had become James
Wilson's blacksmith
shop. In 1939, Albert
Joinson lived there and
in 1953 it had become
Snape's, the haulage
contractor. This became
Snape's taxi service in
1955 (which) then
operated until 1964 when
the premises were
demolished."
Ask Andrew
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Tracking down a member
of the Prince
family |
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A SEARCH for an ancestor, via e-mails to
Paul Simpson, is outlined in this item. It proves that obtaining as
much information as possible makes for a successful search.
Left: Part of one page of the 1881 English
Census showing the entries for the Prince family of Millstone Lane,
starting with 59-year-old John Prince the head of the family.
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HI, Paul,
I
hope you can cast my net a little further than I have done so
far. I’m trying to trace records before 1875 for my great,
great, great grandfather. His name was John Prince. He was a cordwainer by trade and lived in Welsh Row, Nantwich. The
Census
record of 1875 is the earliest I am able to find.
Andy Prince, Nantwich FEBRUARY 2013
Paul Simpson replies:
Can you give me a bit more to work
on than a name, please? Do you know when he was born and where?
You say Census of 1875 but that isn't possible. It would have to
be 1881 or in 10 years jumps from there.
Over to Andy:
I now have the details. Attached
are two certificates. One a marriage certificate and the
other a certificate containing an extract of the birth
details of Frank Prince.
Robert Prince and
Rosie senior were my grandparents. I intimated John Prince
was born in 1875 - clearly that was wrong. It was Frank who
was born in 1875. Therefore it is John Prince who I’m trying
to find records for.
Armed with that information,
Paul was able to say:
John Prince was born c1823 in
Nantwich and married Ann Dutton on September 4, 1849, at St
Mary's Church, Nantwich. He was 26 at the time of the
marriage and educated as he signed his name and his
occupation of, as you said, cordwainer.
Ann was 18 at the time of
the marriage and not educated as she only made a mark, not a
signature. Her occupation is listed as boot binder.
The witnesses at
the marriage were William Hall and Sarah Wright. The
bridegroom's father is listed as William and the bride's
father as John. Both have the occupation of cordwainer.
Residence for
all is listed as the Vauxhall Road area of Nantwich which is off
Barony Road near to the River
Weaver.
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This is the full page.
Census page images are the copyright of
The National
Archives. Search service:
ancestry.co.uk
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It is interesting
that the ceremony was conducted by the Rev A.F.Chater, a well-known and respected Rector who opened All
Saints' burial ground on the corner of Barony Road and
Middlewich Road following the cholera epidemic. He is also
interred there.
All of the above
information is available on the Cheshire Parish Registers
Project found at:
http://cgi.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb/
I found a long list
of children for John and Ann as follows: Eliza b (born)
1851, Mary Jane b1852, Elizabeth b1855, John b1856, Ann
b1859, Isabella b1860, Albert b1863, Louisa b1866, Emily
b1868, Walter b1869,
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Edward b1870, Alice b1871, Ada b1872, Frank b 18
November, 1875, and Harry b1881. A total of 15.
All are shown on
the Census as being born in Nantwich but
www.cheshirebmd.org.uk has no record of any of
the births and that is a bit unusual.
But you now have
plenty of branches to look into and another step back for
you.
Back to Andy:
Wow, that is amazing. Thank
you so much for your help. I’m now on a mission!!
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Family Lines